Interview with Hezbollah.Part2
Face to face with the ‘enemy’ !
No camera is something I'm used to hearing from officials at tourist sites and the police. Both can usually be persuaded to allow cameras for a fee.
This time I complied, immediately.
Not because I was afraid, I've come to realise that it is the fear of danger that makes the world dangerous. I didn't want the as yet unseen guard to change his mind about speaking to me, especially as I wasn't yet certain that he would actually speak to me.
The next command was ‘mush’, a colloquialism that means wait there, luckily it was already part of my very limited Arabic vocabulary because in the west it means hurry up! The next thing I heard was ‘mrhaba’, a familiar way of saying hello and it relaxed me enough to look up.
Remember the ‘pointy end of an AK47’ from part 1? That's where we are up to!
It's not the first time I've had a gun pointed at me, I grew up in Johannesburg and had served as a national serviceman in the old South African defence force. However the faded military style fatigues, olive shirt and matching cap, embossed with the same logo I'd seen around Baalbek gave me an instant adrenaline boost!
The guard looked around 25, had dark skin, a beard even scraggier than mine and scruffy black tactical boots. I was intensely aware of my own, light brown style combat boots, a gift from my son who had informed me that this particular brand was popular with the American military who would often replace their standard kit issue with them. They were perfect for the environment I was planning to travel through as I made my way from Gobekli Tepe to Cape town. Had I known how my day was going to turn out I may have chosen my trainers.
The old style soviet era semi automatic rifle, still one of the most reliable in these conditions, completed the image of an Islamic fundamentalist we have all seen in Hollywood movies.
I'd read somewhere that war correspondents would carry extra packets of cigarettes to use as ‘soothers’ for situations like this. I only had the one pack but the look on Mo’s face (that's how we agreed I’d refer to him) when I slowly and deliberately pulled mine out of my pocket was encouraging though. There is something about offering a cigarette to someone that says ‘it's OK, we have something in common’.
In spite of my poor pronunciation Mo seemed to relax a bit more when I introduced myself, ‘aismi Adam’. Adam is a good Arabic name and I’d already chuckled to myself since arriving in the Middle East at the thought that Mum and Dad knew something when they gave me that name.
As I handed my potential interviewee my lighter and noticed his nod of approval at the powerful flame I knew I was going to be OK. I say potential because my taxi driving friend Ali hadn't really told me what the two of them had agreed in their brief, shouted conversation prior to me advancing up the hill to this point. Instead of waiting for Mo to hand my lighter back to me I advanced moved close enough for him to light mine.
We were bonding.
The next thing was to explain my nationality and what the hell I was doing there, I didn't feel comfortable pretending to be purely South African and I was going to need my translator app from here on so I taking great care to ensure that my movements couldn't be misinterpreted I slowly reached into my trouser pocket and pulled out my phone.
Ten minutes later I had explained with the help of the app that I was a freelance journalist, born in Liverpool, playing the Mohammed Salah’ card again, who had grown up in South Africa. Rather than try to explain what Gonzo journalism is, I explained that I wanted to tell the stories that the likes of the BBC and CNN would never tell and that ‘ Inshallah’, god willing, he would allow me to ask him a few questions. I also promised to publish his answers exactly as he gave them. There would be no judgement from me. Mo’s English is marginally better than my Arabic but he liked the prospect of speaking into my brand new smartphone.
For his part Mo made it very clear that he would not name names and that I could not use his real name. There would be no photographs under any circumstances and he would not talk about ‘operational’ matters.
I’m fairly sure that he saw me as a bit of a distraction from what must have been a very tedious posting and I for my part was playing the part of a ‘star struck’, grateful foreign visitor. I was playing my role without inflating his ego too much. I wanted honest answers from him and after all, I had made it clear I was interviewing him as an individual who just happened to be a member of Hezbollah.
With the ground rules agreed I conducted the interview that I never dreamt I would. It was slow going due to the need for the translator app, luckily the mobile signal in the area is good. I counted at least 4 phone masts in the immediate vicinity of Baalbek.
What follows is, to the best of my knowledge and abilities, an accurate transcript of that interview. I have made allowances for language and used western terminology in the translation. I have been careful not to change the meaning of Mo’s answers when I have done this. Where I feel there is a need to provide context I have done so in the body of the interview and have clearly indicated so.
I have only done this where I believe there is a comprehension based need to do so and have not included my own view of what was said.
If you feel I have strayed from the ideals of Gonzo Journalism please comment on whatever platform you are using.
Thank you.
Iamthegonzojournalist
GJ Can you tell me your name and what you do and what your responsibilities are here
at Beqaa.
Mo My name is ****** and I am responsible for safety and security
GJ Safety and security for who
Mo Safety for all visitors and security of the site. The enemy does not like this place
GJ Who are your enemies
Mo Israel
GJ Are you a member of Hezbollah
Mo Yes, this is our area
GJ What makes this site so important to Hezbollah
Mo This is where we won our first victory. By God’s will, is is our birthplace
GJ Do you mean Hezbollah’s birth place
Mo Yes
GJ You say Israel is your enemy, what about America?
Mo Yes America also, they want to destroy Islam and kill our women and children They
give weapons to Israel to use against us
GJ Where do your weapons come from ?
Mo Hezbollah has many powerful friends who help us with weapons
GJ Could any of the tanks and missiles be used if they were needed?
Mo Yes, most of the items here are in working order but they will stay where they are.
We have more than enough missiles and drones that we can deploy.
GJ Does Iran supply you with weapons?
Mo Yes and we also take the tanks of our enemies when we defeat them
You have seen here we have tanks seized from the Jews
GJ I see Russian tanks too, does Russia provide weapons
Mo Of course, we have the same enemies. Hezbollah, Iran, Russia we all hate the same
Enemy
GJ Israel
Mo Yes of course, and America. They are the same, Israel is the same as America.
America is full of rich Jews who want to destroy Hezbollah and take Lebanon for
Themselves.
Mo They want to build homes for the Jews here
GJ What about Europe, what about the UK
Mo English?
GJ Yes, is England your enemy
Mo Israel, America, England is all the same thing, they are all enemies of Lebanon and
Hezbollah
GJ America and England give money to the UN to provide aid and assistance to
countries like Lebanon. How are they your enemy?
Mo The UN is the dog of America. They are spies who take our children away from their
Mothers
GJ You don't like the UN?
Mo No! We will chase them out when we have dealt with the Jews
GJ What about me? I was born in England, am I your enemy?
Mo Not today. Today you are my guest, you are a journalist. You are a visitor.
GJ And tomorrow?
Mo Here you are safe.
GJ If your commander ordered you to kill me?
Mo If it is God's command, yes. I would kill you.
Mo I will give you a good death.
GJ What do you mean by a good death?
Mo Quick. Painless.
GJ With your AK?
Mo (Laughing) Yes. Very good for killing
GJ Have you ever killed anyone with your
Mo Not here at Bekka
GJ Where?
Mo I can not say
GJ But you have killed people
Mo Of course.
GJ Who is your commander
Mo Not allowed. Our leader is Hassan Nasrallah. He is a great warrior
GJ Have you met him
Mo (laughing) No. He is with the Ayatollah and his powerful allies
GJ It is very quiet here today. Is it always like this?
Mo In the winter it is busier, today is very hot
CONTEXT
The temperature that day was in the low 40s and the UNESCO site at Baalbek was quieter than I had anticipated
GJ What about the local people, are they happy Hezbollah are here?
Mo Yes! We keep them safe, we settle problems between neighbours, families and we
brought peace to the region. We keep the peace here.
GJ What do you mean when you say ‘you keep the peace here’?
Mo When I was a child the fighting between the clans and different groups was bad.
Many people were Hezbollah ended the fighting and brought peace to the whole
Beqaa governorate.
CONTEXT
There is evidence to support this claim. In 2009 Hezbollah were credited with ending a bloody dispute between local warring factions by acting as both mediator and peacekeeping force. Reuters and AFP reported on this.
GJ I have read reports that there were missile strikes nearby in March this year. Is that
True
Mo Yes. Israeli dogs tried to kill us but they hit the temples instead.
GJ The temples at Baalbek?
Mo Yes! By God’s will my brothers were able to protect the ruins. The poor people were
so grateful that when our enemies tried to murder them it was Hezbollah who were
able to offer them protection.
CONTEXT
Reuters report that Israeli air strikes and missiles have hit the area close to the UNESCO site on numerous occasions this year, killing at least one person. There is no evidence that the missiles actually hit the ancient ruins.
GJ Where does the money come from to allow Hezbollah to manage the Beqaa valley
area?
Mo From visitors and taxes.
GJ What do you mean taxes?
Mo The locals. The souvenir sellers and local businesses donate part of their sales to us.
GJ Do you think they are happy to do this?
Mo Yes. The area is the best in the whole of Lebanon.
Context
I could not verify this. I asked a local cafe owner about this on the way back to Beirut but he claimed not to understand me and would not use the translator app. Hezbollah’s leadership states that they are self funded. Western governments claim that they are funded by Iran, Russia and Syria as well as prominent Muslim businessmen.
I did notice that the roads in the immediate vicinity of Baalbek were in better condition than in other areas of Lebanon I visited.
GJ Let's talk about you. Do you enjoy your work at the museum?
Mo Yes but that is not important, I will go wherever I am ordered.
GJ How long have you been posted here?
Mo More than a few months
GJ Are there other guards who work here?
Mo (smiling) I can not answer that.
GJ How long will you remain here
Mo Only God can say
GJ Do you have family nearby? Are you married?
Mo My family are all in the area. I am not yet married but I hope to be one day.
GJ Do you have a girlfriend?
Mo There is a pretty girl, I am respectful of her Father and will ask him for permission to
speak to his daughter soon.
Mo Where is your wife?
GJ I am divorced, my son is in England.
Mo One day I would like to go to England
GJ Too visit or to fight?
Mo (laughs and indicates he wont answer that question)
Mo We need to end now, soon my superiors will arrive and they will not be happy that I
am speaking to you. Please do not tell people my name.
GJ You have my word, I will not use your real name.
GJ What would they do to me if they found me here?
Mo Let us not speak of such things. You should return to your son while you still can.
GJ Before I leave, is there anything you would like to say? A message for the west
Perhaps?
Mo They should not send their soldiers here, we will defeat them all. Just we defeated
the false Islamists.
GJ Do you mean Islamic State? ISIS?
Mo Yes. They were bad people and we had to remove them for the sake of all Lebanese
Context
In 2017 Hezbollah announced that it had brokered a deal that would see the remaining ISIS fighters in Lebanon leave the country under a free passage agreement. Ending the bloody conflict between the official Lebanese army and the militant group.
GJ Is there anything else you would like to say? A message for Israel perhaps?
Mo We will destroy the Jews. One day Hezbollah will free all Muslims and live in our
truthful lands. Where our ancestors lived. Death to Israel! Death to America! Death to
the foreigners!
At this point Mo was becoming increasingly agitated and he insisted that it was time for me to leave for my own safety. I thanked him for his time and for allowing me to record our conversation. I left him with the remaining contents of my cigarette packet, we’d smoked a few during the 90 minutes or so that it had taken to translate and understand each other. Mo told me to wait while he quickly retrieved something from his guard hut. A yellow Hezbollah t-shirt emblazoned with the now familiar green logo.
We shook hands and said goodbye. Mo’s AK47 had remained around his neck for the entire interview. I was grateful that he had kept the ‘pointy end’, pointed away from me. I would like to think that if we meet again we would be able to continue our conversation, perhaps not as friends but with the same level of respect.
With his final words echoing in my head I am not so sure of that. “Death to Israel, death to America, death to the foreigners”.
Speaking as a foreigner I was glad to see Ali’s smiling face waiting for me at the Tuk Tuk.
As we were driven back to his minibus a white saloon car passed us going the other way.
I wondered if the people inside it were the ones Mo had warned me about?
